tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post2996105447790624361..comments2023-10-16T09:14:24.053-04:00Comments on Cairncrest Farm: Cowspiracy Movie ReviewCairncrest Farmhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16529897892584816502noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-4334368869591287382015-09-26T03:27:55.534-04:002015-09-26T03:27:55.534-04:00Go vegan for ethical reasons and improving your he...Go vegan for ethical reasons and improving your health and the environment are bonuses.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07664827821366530216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-84463624703973972652015-09-26T02:02:35.157-04:002015-09-26T02:02:35.157-04:00Plants are not sentient and do not have a nervous ...Plants are not sentient and do not have a nervous system so your comparison of plants to animals is false. While some people may have issues buying produce because of food distribution issues, I call B.S. on your statement that people cannot afford to shop in the produce section of a supermarket. There certainly can be cultural barriers to a vegan lifestyle and diet, but many people consume animal products because of habit and convenience. You say yourself that it is a question of morality so what other morals should we compromise on? Some people participate in meatless Monday. How about wife-beat Wednesday? Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07664827821366530216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-78852859089529969702015-09-24T19:51:25.897-04:002015-09-24T19:51:25.897-04:00Thank you! I'm a vegan and have noticed an inf...Thank you! I'm a vegan and have noticed an influx of new vegans from this movie, but when I watched it- ugh. Terrible, context-less statistics and woefully inappropriate "experts" and shoddily edited interviews. I can't believe so many people seem to have been convinced by it. I too have done a bunch of research into what the truth of some of the numbers should be and while I do think the EPA's estimate is low for a number of reasons, it appears the 51% of greenhouse gas emissions figure is based on some handwaving, guesswork and selective application of basic math. <br /><br />I really haven't felt like typing out an in-depth and more fair look into the stats so I've been trying to find someone else who's done it and I either get rabidly anti-vegan screeds guilty of similar fallacies or nothing. This is the best review I've found so far, so thanks. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05142869596400111485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-25630807064688190762015-09-22T20:53:03.489-04:002015-09-22T20:53:03.489-04:00Spoken like a true zealot. Lets not do the ration...Spoken like a true zealot. Lets not do the rational thing and discuss ways to mitigate the issue. Lets also ignore the socio-economic issues that DRIVE consumption ( most poor people cannot afford to shop in the produce dept. when processed meat products cost pennies on the dollar compared to perishables) . lets also ignore multi 1000 yr. old sea-based, cultural issues in the east that will not change any time soon, as well as whole economies that run on both livestock and fishing in coastal communities. Lets just make this a black and white "bad versus good" argument. For the record, since we are discussing morality. Plants are JUST as alive, and just as WORTHY of life as any animal.<br />Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17321104084069770116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-34504347947332076822015-09-18T18:52:12.741-04:002015-09-18T18:52:12.741-04:00Just a note to say I appreciate your level-headed ...Just a note to say I appreciate your level-headed critique. Everyone has biases, but the people with the most bias are usually the ones who also know the most about the given subject. I like that you recognized yours, and then unemotionally addressed each point and posed your own questions. Cheers!Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06235714445486530279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-3942353573743561262015-09-17T21:18:38.058-04:002015-09-17T21:18:38.058-04:00You know what ... keep killing and eating carcass&...You know what ... keep killing and eating carcass's, kill some more and eat more flesh ..... keep killing billions and trillions of everything and when there is nothing left you know you will kill your own and eat them as well. It's your nature, you can't help it. Oh and when illness sets in from all that meat you ingest go to your doctor or hospital because I won't lift a finger for anyone of you sick bastards !!!DarthCadueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12320437030782653096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-78958315958782734352015-03-17T12:26:03.962-04:002015-03-17T12:26:03.962-04:00As a fifth generation cattle ranching family membe...As a fifth generation cattle ranching family member (with the 6th generation coming on), a couple things need clearing up. Too many people have adopted these errors as "facts." First, beef cattle are NOT raised on 'factory farms'. The only 'factory farming' done with beef cattle is in the last 2-3 months in a feedlot (for those that are sold to feedlots), but the first 12-16 months of life are lived entirely on grass, hay, pasture. They move about freely 24 hours a day, grazing and eating grass.....so, just because someone sees a feedlot, with no other knowledge or experience they then decide cattle are "raised" in that environment. Not true. Grain is provided at that point, yes, to finish them -- but, in truth, cattle (and we raise 100% All Natural, no hormones or antibiotics, etc) are occasionally only supplemented some grain (small amounts) on a ranch when they're weaned, but 98% of their diet is grass, hay, and pasture!!! Compared to any other source, natural beef is the cleanest source of protein....Different for pigs and chickens, of course, but the idea of a factory farm is a falsehood that has persisted ad nauseum..... Secondly, cattle are a bovine species, as are buffalo, and though not naturally suited, as you say, for the cold Plains perhaps, they do co-habitate beautifully with other species and act on the environment in the same way, performing 'carbon sequestration' which is a positive. They are also a natural FIRE retardant, converting all sorts of dry matter (unusable for any other use - eg: almond hulls, woody stuff in the forests, grasslands that dry up) -- the kind of material that has turned the West into a tinderbox -- into a useable and sustainable protein source. They do not destroy habitat when managed effectively. In fact, raising livestock is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture there is, and, please, FEW domestic cattle ranchers are "subsidized by tax dollars!" What?? Only a fraction of ranchers pay for the right to graze on federal lands (NOT a subsidy) -- and they pay for that right, in addition to paying their own tax dollars that support federal lands....but most ranchers raise their herds on their own lands; believe me, until the last 3 years, it has been a touch and go enterprise for most of us. The "rich rancher" image is another a myth -- only a handful are super-rich and most of any you see today made their money elsewhere -- absentee ranchers, etc....in fact, more farm women work a second job out of necessity than in any other profession in the U.S. Finally, more than 75% of ALL waterfowl are protected by PRIVATE ranch lands -- open lands -- not by the government. Eg: We have a large, 140 year old natural preserve on our ranch and we have maintained it (at our cost) for generations. On it are hundreds of Canadian geese, ducks, eagles, hawks, herons, and all manner of smaller birds, plus mink, beaver, etc. And we are not the atypical ranching family; we are the typical ranching family. And contrary to the myths that abound -- and are perpetuated by those who would dictate we all become vegan or vegetarian -- more than 90% of ALL farms are run by families and family corporations. "Industrial" farming is the minority enterprise. Average farms/ranches in the U.S. are small. <br /><br />In truth, IF Americans want open space, they need to thank their ranchers & farmers. By breaking up ranch lands, we are losing open space that supports waterfowl and wildlife. Sadly, this country has become so far removed from the land, consumers jump on bizarre "environmental" bandwagons, believing anyone they consider a "whistleblower"-- without doing their own research.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-39646389981596201702015-03-17T12:20:43.156-04:002015-03-17T12:20:43.156-04:00As a fifth generation cattle ranching family membe...As a fifth generation cattle ranching family member (with the 6th generation coming on), first I want to agree with much of what you've written here, Goldmund....however, a couple things need clearing up. First, beef cattle are NOT raised on 'factory farms'. The only 'factory farming' done with beef cattle is in the last 2-3 months in a feedlot (for those that are sold to feedlots), but the first 12-16 months of life are lived entirely on grass, hay, pasture. They move about freely 24 hours a day, grazing and eating grass.....so, just because someone sees a feedlot, with no other knowledge or experience they then decide cattle are "raised" in that environment. Not true. Grain is provided at that point, yes, to finish them -- but, in truth, cattle (and we raise 100% All Natural, no hormones or antibiotics, etc) are occasionally only supplemented some grain (small amounts) on a ranch when they're weaned, but 98% of their diet is grass, hay, and pasture!!! Compared to any other source, natural beef is the cleanest source of protein....Different for pigs and chickens, of course, but the idea of a factory farm is a falsehood that has persisted ad nauseum..... Secondly, cattle are a bovine species, as are buffalo, and though not naturally suited, as you say, for the cold Plains perhaps, they do co-habitate beautifully with other species and act on the environment in the same way, performing 'carbon sequestration' which is a positive. They are also a natural FIRE retardant, converting all sorts of dry matter (unusable for any other use - eg: almond hulls, woody stuff in the forests, grasslands that dry up) -- the kind of material that has turned the West into a tinderbox -- into a useable and sustainable protein source. They do not destroy habitat when managed effectively. In fact, raising livestock is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture there is, and, please, FEW domestic cattle ranchers are "subsidized by tax dollars!" What?? Only a fraction of ranchers pay for the right to graze on federal lands (NOT a subsidy) -- and they pay for that right, in addition to paying their own tax dollars that support federal lands....but most ranchers raise their herds on their own lands; believe me, until the last 3 years, it has been a touch and go enterprise for most of us. The "rich rancher" image is another a myth -- only a handful are super-rich and most of any you see today made their money elsewhere -- absentee ranchers, etc....in fact, more farm women work a second job out of necessity than in any other profession in the U.S. Finally, more than 75% of ALL waterfowl are protected by PRIVATE ranch lands -- open lands -- not by the government. Eg: We have a large, 140 year old natural preserve on our ranch and we have maintained it (at our cost) for generations. On it are hundreds of Canadian geese, ducks, eagles, hawks, herons, and all manner of smaller birds, plus mink, beaver, etc. And we are not the atypical ranching family; we are the typical ranching family. And contrary to the myths that abound -- and are perpetuated by those who would dictate we all become vegan or vegetarian -- more than 90% of ALL farms are run by families and family corporations. "Industrial" farming is the minority enterprise. Average farms/ranches in the U.S. are small. <br /><br />In truth, IF Americans want open space, they need to thank their ranchers & farmers. By breaking up ranch lands, we are losing open space that supports waterfowl and wildlife. Sadly, this country has become so far removed from the land, consumers jump on bizarre "environmental" bandwagons, believing anyone they consider a "whistleblower"-- without doing their own research. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-29921037229593385852015-02-20T19:46:56.692-05:002015-02-20T19:46:56.692-05:00Hi,
Funnily enough, the Cowspiracy website has a ...Hi,<br /><br />Funnily enough, the Cowspiracy website has a TED talk by Alan Savory embedded in it's evidence section. I watched the video and thought that this must be what the film was about! Then I read their link to Richard Oppenlander's (The film's number one 'expert') rebuttal of Alan Savory and worked it out pretty quick :-) <br /><br />The rebuttal was so full of holes and straw men I was really disappointed. I couldn't work out how a researcher and author could make such lame arguments. He accused Savory of killing Elephants in Zimbabwe as if it was a dirty secret but I had just watched Alan Savory front up to that issue right at the start of the TED talk, saying how hard it was to live with and how it had propelled him to find a better way to prevent desertification. <br /><br />Oppenlander has several really silly sentences in his piece but I'll just mention one. He says: "Savory provided the audience with examples of restored land using his livestock and grazing techniques in Africa, Argentina, and Mexico. Argentina, though, has lost over 66 percent of all its forests over the past seventy-five years." <br /><br />The sentence seems to imply that Savory's methods are somehow responsible for the loss of forestland in Argentina over a period of time that begins when he is a toddler! But that is too silly. Perhaps if you assume that all livestock grazing methods are created equal this might make sense but Savory's methods do actually work and no where does Oppenlander disprove the fact that he has been successful in rebuilding ecosystems and stopping deforestation. The best he can do is accuse Savory's method of receiving help on one particular experiment because it rained a lot one year. Hilariously, he then tries to have it both ways by telling us that the pasture deteriorated in the following 2 years of normal rainfall. He doesn't say by how much but it's safe to assume it deteriorated back to match the level of rain it was receiving.<br /><br />Anyway, I was very happy to find your blog which has confirmed my suspicions about the film's reliability.<br /><br />If anyone wants a good laugh, the rest of Oppenlander's article is here: http://freefromharm.org/agriculture-environment/saving-the-world-with-livestock-the-allan-savory-approach-examined/#sthash.NlZQ9TsN.dpufAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-90595753843469945562015-02-16T21:26:05.809-05:002015-02-16T21:26:05.809-05:00Hi all,
I recently watched Cowspiracy and enjoye...Hi all, <br /><br />I recently watched Cowspiracy and enjoyed the discussion in the Soil / Health group and the review and comments here. I'm currently being trained by Consumer Reports on editing Wikipedia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowspiracy should definitely have some references about sustainable ranching. Unfortunately, I can't link to Garth's review here because links to personal blogs aren't allowed on Wikipedia.<br /><br />The Cowspiracy site lists the studies in their favor, such as "Got Drought? On Thursday, NASA released a study which says that the United States should prepare for the worst drought recorded ..." <br /><br />So I'm looking for links to studies or articles about the impact and "carbon footprint" of pastured cattle and other farm animals. I live in the desert and our fastest internet connection is around 500k lately, makes it hard to research.<br /><br />I personally think that Cowspiracy is right on the money in most respects and it really doesn't matter whether it takes 1000 or 2500 gallons of water to produce a pound of beef, but we really need to distinguish between corn / soy fed and sustainably raised and grass fed farm animals.<br /><br />Please post any info here or email me directly, thanks!<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00882437878870394349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-29913872730881442872015-01-27T07:40:30.045-05:002015-01-27T07:40:30.045-05:00sorry, Garth, but i dispute these figures, as prop...sorry, Garth, but i dispute these figures, as properly managed manure wont loose so much of its valuable nitrogen( nh4, or methane),,,,in a feedlot, perhaps, but they could do bio-gas, if there werent the gas co. thugs breathing down their necks.....the vegans should all read up on Dr. weston Price.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04351786670419202184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-12618372934403192322015-01-27T07:35:07.314-05:002015-01-27T07:35:07.314-05:00Goldman, I like your Idea, and have seen our natio...Goldman, I like your Idea, and have seen our national parks, devoid of people, not looking near as good as the farms near by. I would like to see the kinds of preserves like they have in Brasil, where people live in the parks. Now, as you say, we can herd caribou, bison, and suitable animals....it does sound interesting....there is soo much unused land here in the us, and the animals do add to it so much.......the indians burned the land off, and managed the land so much better than we do....what a shame to see so much waste, so much fixation on ideas holding us back.....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04351786670419202184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-31340446743690042762015-01-27T06:49:52.979-05:002015-01-27T06:49:52.979-05:00considering that it would be nice to separate out ...considering that it would be nice to separate out factory farms and their practices( monoculture, etc.), arid vs. wet grazing lands( and lands unsuitable for tillage), food forrests and permaculture, Allan Savory type grazing, the re-construction of the loess plateau, the sea water foundation using sea water for farming, and a lot of other things, I have to agree with you that this is a person without substantial experience in agriculture....he should have asked me,,,,,,in California they grow rice with shipped in water, does he think that is ok? What difference if they use water, and it falls from the sky, and will run off if not directed to a pond?...oh, Edmond gave me this link to see, from our ag talk groupAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04351786670419202184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-32181764799718199452014-11-29T11:15:33.008-05:002014-11-29T11:15:33.008-05:00Thank you for the thoughtful counterpoint Garth. ...Thank you for the thoughtful counterpoint Garth. I too was troubled by the self-serving tone of the movie, which I don't believe will convert many people to veganism. No mention is made of the fact that herbivores have been living on this planet for many millions of years before we came along, and if they were the cause of planetary destruction would have died out long ago. Factory farms simply don't allow these herd animals to live the way they would in the "natural" world- eating grass and migrating across vast stretches of land- but force feed them grain and keep them confined in pens they can barely move about in instead. This is why I'm a huge fan of the "Buffalo Commons" idea, which would bring back these magnificent animals to a place they are well adapted to, which cattle are not. Of course in order to do so we would have to create preserves that are currently used to raise domestic cattle (subsidized by tax dollars), who often die on the arid, blizzard-prone Great Plains. I'm also a fan of sustainable agriculture practices, that try to mimic the natural world as much as possible, allowing the animals to eat what they've evolved to eat (grass) and roam about somewhat, if not exactly migrate. Vegans so often conflate small, family farming practices (e.g. the Amish) with those of industrial agriculture, as if they both were equally bad. It's difficult for me to take them seriously when they do this.Goldmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08141822328214385954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-51876766584204691462014-10-18T11:54:02.604-04:002014-10-18T11:54:02.604-04:00Thanks for the comments. I'm not clear why sta...Thanks for the comments. I'm not clear why statistics being off by a factor of 2 or 3 - and some in the movie are off by far more than that - would not be important when attempting to address the huge environmental issues facing the world. I'm opposed to factory farming, as I imagine you are. I am also for practical, ecologically sensible agriculture, and I wish the movie had something to say about it.<br /><br />-GarthUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12449452173636791089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-65421874741908440112014-10-14T12:50:33.937-04:002014-10-14T12:50:33.937-04:00Appreciate your candid admission of bias. I knew ...Appreciate your candid admission of bias. I knew Cowspiracy would set off a statistics-war - counter-stats, counter-counter-stats, on and on... Even if they are off by a factor of 2 or 3 - so what? But you have nothing to fear from the movie - factory farming, yes, but not the movie. We Americans will not lift a finger to save ourselves. Given the state of the economy, we won't be buying much grass-fed beef either.JustMoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13499214592851731605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3244589317007797655.post-2348894941530203692014-10-13T12:53:14.853-04:002014-10-13T12:53:14.853-04:00National Geographic cites Water Foot Print Network...National Geographic cites Water Foot Print Network on 1799 gallons of water per pound of beef here, http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/green-guide/quizzes/organic-food/. It does not say how Water Foot Print got there. Wow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com